We received the following e-mail after Wednesday's story about a poster campaign against Carrboro's Hoop Path hula hoopers. It was sent from the e-mail address hoopsrlame@gmail.com.

Hey everybody,

I'm one of the folks that put up the hoop cult posters and I wanted to offer a little insight into the message and motivation that was intended.

I'll start off with a positive note so that I'm not written off as a hateful nut. I find a number of the hoopers to be very skilled and some of their routines are truly impressive and beautiful. I also understand the intense joy that can accompany the selfless immersion in a physical activity. I don't intend to discourage anyone from living the way they want to live.

Now on to the critique.

Sorry to disappoint the folks that want to blame the christians, but promoting the agenda of one cult over another was not the intention. The message was actually much simpler and more direct: the particular breed of hoopers that has infested the weaver st. lawn is a cult in the literal sense, and their inescapable public displays are really starting to grate on my nerves. The posters are intended as a humorous critique. I'm actually impressed by the number of humorous responses to the posters. If we can't laugh at ourselves, then everyone else will laugh at us.

[More:]

A little clarity is needed here of course. Namely, what is my definition of a cult, and why bother pestering the Hoop Pathers?

My definition of a cult is one that is specific to groups that meet two basic criteria: based around a charismatic leader, and heretical to an established spiritual tradition.

I think the "charismatic leader" role is pretty obviously played by Baxter. As for the heresy, that's a bit more of a stretch because the pseudo-spiritual mumbo jumbo that festers at the heart of the Hoop Path is just a really watered down adaptation of so many other already bleached out pseudo-spiritual "paths" that have been co-opted by westerners since the 60s. Buddhism, Hinduism, Suffism, etc.

What bothers me is the exploitative nature of the spiritual garbage. Namely, all the classes, retreats, conferences, DVDs, and miscellaneous paraphernalia that are being hoisted on folks. It's a hoop y'all! Make one, spin it, repeat. Why must everything be commodified?

By far, the most irritating characteristic of this whole phenomenon is the proselytizing of the Hoop Path. It's one thing to do this at home with friends, it's another thing altogether to flock at every public gathering within a 50 mile radius to "spread the vibes, or flow, or (insert flaky adjective here)" And what the hell is up with "Hoops for Haiti"?! How about "Food for Haiti"?! There's not a Hoop crisis in Haiti, there's a FOOD Crisis in Haiti. Those are FOOD riots people! And just in case you missed the news story detailing the proximate causes of the food shortages on the world market, it's the increased demand for foods that can be converted into BIOFUELS. Sorry folks, driving is still driving and it's still destroying the planet. The only difference with biofuels is that you're starving folks in poor countries first. There's some good vibes for you.

Let's wrap this up, shall we?

Please, continue hooping. Tell your friends about it and teach them if they're interested. In the meantime, knock it off with the constant public displays, the hippie dippy spiritualism, and the grifting. Give the residents of Carrboro some hoop relief!

Clint, self appointed leader of the Yo Yo Revolution.

05/04/08 at 09:33
No comments? Do I have to be the one person who says I agree with Clint (I don't think that's his real name) in that private displays of spirituality (retch!) should be done in public? And that I get tired of dodging the hoops (it's a CIRCLE!) when I walk down the sidewalk?

My friends and I had a very good laugh at the classes offered at the (very expensive) Hoop Convergence... Hooping as Healing Art? Sustainability and Hooping? Oh, please, for real? Plus, at $400 a pop, seems that the simple circle is only for the wealthy who can afford to gyrate instead of produce... my friend's quote was "do these rich hippies live in such a utopian bubble that they actually do this in an official capacity?" Well, yes, apparently they do...

So, it IS a cult to me... because only the wealthy, white and righteous have that luxury...

05/04/08 at 09:34
I meant *shouldn't* be done in public... sorry everyone for my typo...

05/08/08 at 14:47
Obviously "ComaBoy" is the co-conspirator (and, incidentally, brother) of "Cint" the anonymous would-be harasser of the Carrboro hooping community.

We have learned the true identities of these two, who acted alone, without the widespread community support they claim. Sunday's Chapel Hill Herald featured a community round-up of five randomly selected voices from Carrboro who were unanimously supportive of the local hoop movement. These guys tried hard to make a controversy where there was none. They tried hard to be funny too but that didn't work either. Thankfully they have retreated and will hopefully think twice about future pranks.

05/12/08 at 16:13
You've caught me, Ann. I am indeed in the Chapel Hill News saying I love the hoopers. That's me with the dreadlocks pretending to be named "Tyson" -- get it? Like the Chicken products?

And actually, Clint and I are twins and we're actually not people, but we are both children's toys (remember the Click-Clacks) and we're waiting our turn for spirituality to be attributed to us too...

05/12/08 at 16:32
Ah... after reading all the Tribe posts, NOW I know why you think I'm his brother...

Let me assure you, I'm not. I don't even know Clint, Quint, whoever, and I've never even been to Southern Rail. I just agree with them, so deal with it... next time I see you hooping, I'll introduce myself so you can place a face with your paranoia and persecution complex...

05/18/08 at 14:04
Wow, $400 for hooping? what does that have to do with spirituality? I'm in with the anti-hoopers.

05/19/08 at 10:59
Pardon me, ComaBoy. You must be able to see how yet another sneering message from yet another alias would have caused me to assume that it was still the same weirdos who had harassed us before.

Also, the enduring misperception that our group was affiliated with the Hoop Convergence (which we were not in any way) seemed to be a tip-off of sorts. That distinction was explained in the tribe thread, but I wouldn't expect you or any non-hooper to be interested enough to take note.

While we had nothing to do with Hoop Convergence (Baxter and I were actually in California that week, teaching Hoop Path workshops) we are having our 2nd Annual Hoop Path Retreat here in Carrboro next month. One of our main goals was to keep it as affordable as possible, so we are offering 3 days of workshops and events for $100. We have been sold out for months now, or I would invite you to join us.

A couple of things I don't understand: I don't get the apparent joke about twins/children's toys, and I don't know how our hooping at WSM is being construed as a private spiritual display that should for some reason not be done in public. We're just hooping to the music. I believe that in order to even be aware of the meditative aspect of our classes, you'd have to go to a class, read our website, or read about us on tribe. I don't see any possible way that we are shoving our private intentions with the hoop down the throats of passersby. If you have somehow purposely availed yourself of this knowledge and allowed it to taint your viewing of public hooping, I don't see that as my/our fault or responsibility.

As for your accusation that my assumption that you were one of the original lone two posters constitutes a "paranoia and persecution complex," I would counter that in fact, it was a reasonable assumption based on a marked paucity of real information. If all you have to go on are anonymous messages comprised of incomprehensible jokes, it tends to draw your attention back to the same place again and again.

Sincerely,
Ann Humphreys

05/19/08 at 13:57
Addendum: My apologies to everyone, ComaBoy included, if the tone of my responses here has been sharp. I hope some of you can understand the frustration of being misperceived and quite aggressively targeted for said misperception.

The HoopPath is committed to providing this community with as much hooping for as low a cost as possible. Baxter teaches five weekly classes in Carrboro and Raleigh, all of which are priced the same as any yoga class. Baxter has also always been willing to teach on a sliding scale for anyone who is in a serious financial bind.

The HoopPath also hosts a totally FREE community jam for all ages every second Sunday from 1pm to 3pm at the Carrboro Town Commons. We provide the music and the hoops--all you need to do is show up! Our next one occurs on Sunday, June 8th.

We will have a 2nd free community jam during our Retreat next month--it will also be held at the TC, but it will be on Friday, June 27th, from 6pm to 8pm. You are all welcome.

Finally, most Thursdays and Sundays I bring our stash of community/class hoops out to the live music at Weaver Street, which is also totally free, for kids and adults alike to play with and enjoy. I personally do my best to try to step aside for people who need to use the walkway to get from the sidewalk up to Weaver Street (folks in wheelchairs, moms with strollers, or anyone who just looks like they want to use the walkway). I never use the walkway unless I'm hooping--I just cut across the mulch/lawn. But those of you who have tried hooping probably understand how difficult it is to hoop in the mulch, whether with shoes or barefoot. Also, WSM has asked us to try to stay back from the beautiful large tree, whose root system has been damaged by the long drought. So we are trying to stay as much to the far side of the walkway as possible. Those of us who hoop there a lot really try to practice awareness of passersby (including little kids who sometimes move very fast, too fast to see while you're spinning) but I will remind everyone of sidewalk etiquette the next time we gather.

Respectfully,
Ann Humphreys

05/19/08 at 19:07
Ann, your first reaction is the most telling... when confronted with an obvious joke, you rallied the troops citing a X-tian fundamentalist plot and made sweeping assumptions about the people making that joke (and those that agreed with them). You over-reacted and acted meanly, so perhaps I assume that the hooping is not having it's desired effect...

Let me address your questions.

First, I assume an alias on message boards as most people do. I don't think this is the place to get into a discussion on why people use aliases.

Second, the "twins" was a joke. You claimed I was his brother. I upped the ante. The child's toy reference is because a hula hoop is a child's toy. Once again, you took things way too literally. I wonder about your imagination and sense of humor.

Third, paranoia is defined as "baseless or excessive suspicion of the motives of others." Persecution complex is defined as "the feeling of being persecuted especially without basis in reality." I think when you made the accusations about my lineage you exhibited the former. I think when you assumed that christian fundamentalists were behind the flyers, you exhibited the latter.

Fourth, just hooping to the music would be fine if you weren't actively recruiting. And if there wasn't a spiritual component assigned to it all. Saying that hooping makes you feel good (like most dancing and exercise does) is different from saying that hooping is a spiritual experience that you'd like everyone to join. If a religious group was standing out there getting bit by rattlesnakes to show how they adhere to the bible, would that be accepted on WSM lawn? I mean, they wouldn't be shoving their intentions down the throats of passersby either. They'd just be getting bit to the music. What if they were whirling dervishes and they were there every week, every event?

Additionally, I think calling people "weirdos" because they don't agree with your spiritual enlightenment is mean-spirited. More mean-spirited than posting flyers lampooning your Hoop Path, which is sort of new-agey and profit-driven.

05/19/08 at 19:08
Just for some laughs, let's look at some characteristics of a cult, shall we? I'll make my little comments in parenthesis after each item to keep it simple...

1) The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

(CB: Uhm, yeah. Now maybe "law" is a strong word but from reading your website and the Tribe posts, Bax is unquestioned. What he says goes and there is no discussion. And I quote, "The depth and breadth of Baxter’s “hoopgnosis” and his ability to convey the encyclopedic range of his knowledge is unparalleled in the world of hoop instruction." Unparalleled... Hoopgnosis... cute.

Or this, addressed to "Clint": "I would just like to say to Clint...sounds like somebody needs to spend some time in the hoop. It will make you feel a million times better.")

‪2) Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

(CB: Uhm, yeah. I don't know about punished but I'd think you'd think twice about questioning, doubting or dissenting with someone who possesses encyclopedic knowledge. Especially since Bax seems like the only person who really knows the rules, since, from your website, the Hoop Path curriculum is "...extensive and has not yet been transcribed into text." There's no questioning something that can change on a whim, especially since it's not written down.)

3) ‪Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

(CB: So-so match on this one. I don't know about using meditation in excess to suppress doubts, but you do have some mind-altering qualities in there, don't you.)

‪4) The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

(CB: Now, before you deny this one, I just read a post where a woman asked permission to bring the "someone special" she had just met to a dinner. She asked Baxter specifically for permission to bring this person and was relieved when he granted that permission. Only after Baxter granted that permission did others welcome it openly. Baxter even stated that he appreciated her asking for his permission. Cultish? You betcha...)

‪5) The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

(CB: Hmmm... interesting. Where was that quote? Oh, right... when "Clint" finally wrote back on the Tribe page and the conversation turned from joking to serious, the subject of Hoop Path being "heretical to an established spiritual tradition" was raised. The response from one of the hoopers? "Jesus' views were seen as pretty heretical to the established traditions of the day, if I'm not mistaken." Strike one, comparison of Baxter to Jesus. Then this selfdeprecating gem, "I didn't see myself as a re-born Gandhi or anything, I just wanted to be a regular guy."
Strike two, comparing himself to Gandhi, if only to say that, aw shucks, I'm not as good as that guy. How about this one, from you yourself, Ann, in response to how the class has become a tight-knit community. "It's very much like a church should be." Bravo! Plus, I haven't even gotten into how the hoopers were allowed to hoop/dance on the WSM lawn during the whole "no dancing ban."

‪6) The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

(CB: This sure seems like conflict to me. You sure seem like an "us-versus-them" sorta person, Ann.)

‪7) The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

(CB: I haven't seen evidence of this. Good going, Hoop Path!)

8) ‪The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

(CB: I haven't seen evidence of this, either. You're on a roll, Hoop Path!)

9) ‪The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

(CB: When "Clint" finally posted his comments to your tribe, one of the members reminded everyone to lighten up and remember that it was a joke, even if you didn't think it was funny. He was told "I don't appreciate being told to lighten up. If you lived here, you might better know how this feels." That comments heaps on the guilt, doesn't it? Plus, it illustrates the us-versus-them thingy. Plus, there's that elitist thing there too.

How about this one, aimed at Clint: "I also encourage you to look closely at your own motivations and needs and figure out why this bothers you so much. You named off a whole bunch of rationalizations about your actions but none of them feels like the core of your Truth to me. Is it that you feel unincluded? Is it that you feel unattractive? Is it that you feel inferior? Is it that you feel unloved or unlovable?" OUCH! Shame, guilt AND the assumption that he's a misfit because he posted a flyer.)

10) ‪Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

(CB: As if I would know anything about this at all. No knowledge means no accusation. See how that works, Ann? Although the code names and special language associated with the community are kinda funny and meant to isolate some, aren't they?)

11) ‪The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

(CB: Look, I'm just saying... to quote, "To borrow a metaphor from a friend, If you had an unlimited stack of $100 bills, wouldn't you want to pass them out? Hooping can make the most down-on-luck person feel rich." Or this, from your website about Baxter's thoughts: "...maybe there was a way to not only keep the cloud of depression from obscuring his own life, but also to open a window to that incredible opportunity for others." I hate the word "preoccupied though, because it's so obsessive.)

12) ‪The group is preoccupied with making money.

(CB: Again, maybe not preoccupied, but definitely a business and definitely all about making some money. $25 for a DVD is pretty steep and I have no idea how much the special hoops cost. You were described as a "cottage industry." And I'm not debating your right to make money from Hoop Path... it's just that large personal wealth through spirituality is more closely associated with televangelists. And it's not very spiritual, is it?)

13) ‪Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

(CB: I can only imagine. It's a lifestyle, isn't it?)

‪14) Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

(CB: I think the church comments say it pretty well.)

‪15) The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.

(CB: Again, out of my realm of knowledge on this one. But there is a class only for the original "true believers" isn't there?)

05/19/08 at 19:09
So, while I'm not saying you're a cult, a case can be made. All I was saying was I don't think people should engage in private spiritual practices in public spaces and complain when they're lampooned. You wanna hoop in public and assign a spirituality to it, well, that makes you a target for jokes. Plus, you've never explained why hooping in public is so important to the path... it just seems like marketing to me. It seems like promotion. It seems like an effort to maximize profits.

Ah, finally... closure.

05/20/08 at 21:34
Wow. Frankly, I'm stunned by the time you must have spent on this response. I wonder what's so upsetting? I'm truly astonished.

I'm happy to discuss any of this in person with you, by the way.

I think that something you have not realized is this: it was NOT obvious to us that the posters were a joke. They seemed like an excessively mean and sinister (not to mention weird and inexplicable) character assassination. Hence, the concern (and in some cases, out and out fear, which caused them to ask us to go to the police) of HP members (most of them mothers) who felt that we might be being targeted by some crazy person. It was very frightening.

The idea of a fundamentalist crazy person came from the Satan worshipping aspect (horns, tail, waving skeleton arms, pentagram) of the poster. We had no way of knowing what was the intent behind it. It's easy to sit here today and say, Oh, come on, it was a joke! *After* finding out exactly who did it and why. But the first few days we knew nothing and it was very alarming. We decided we wanted everyone to know that it had happened, but also make light of it (the fundamentalist idea itself was meant as a joke, although at the time we thought it was one plausible explanation) so that people didn't get upset. Some people got upset anyway, which we couldn't control.

If "actively recruiting" is giving a class schedule (when I remember to bring them) to someone who asks, I'd say that's a pretty broad interpretation of that term.

By hooping to the music at WSM and giving someone a class schedule when they ask, how is that "saying that hooping is a spiritual experience that [I]'d like everyone to join"? My question is sincere. I again ask you, How would anyone passing by know anything about HoopPath classes having a meditative emphasis? You have done a lot of reading on websites and tribe.net which has given you a lot of ideas (many of which I wish I had time to debunk), but I still don't see how any part of that aspect of our classes intrudes anywhere it is not actively sought.

I think you have grossly misperceived what the HoopPath is and does. Again, I'm truly astonished by the exhaustiveness and vitriol of your response. Perhaps my "counter-joke" that your jokes were incomprehensible really pissed you off. If that is the case, I'm truly sorry.

Try to bear in mind that we were anonymously targeted in a way that mystified and alarmed us. We had a conversation about what the incident meant on our message board, which has only 350 members and is usually a safe space for geeking out about hooping and staying in touch with hooping friends across the country. Call it over-reaction--we felt it to be telling our friends about something really bizarre and inexplicable that had happened to us. I don't know if I can characterize telling our friends about us being anonymously targeted in a weird, inexplicable, and sinister way as "mean." You went out of your way to find that conversation and were exposed to many points of view (some of them close to my own, some not) that you may or may not resonate with. But I don't see our response as equivalent to the incident that precipitated it.

Since we do now know who's responsible, an equivalent "mean" response would have been to make some kind of mocking poster of the culprits and post them all over Southern Rail/the Station. Of course, we're not going to do that.

Baxter authored the entirety of the HoopPath on his own, which is why he is the encyclopedia of its stories, images, and techniques.

*running out of time*

It's hard for me to tell if you're serious/half-serious/not-serious about these "cult" beliefs, but all I can say is, why don't you come to a class, or a jam? Or meet us somehow? You'll find we are a really normal group of people who have just bonded in a very special and unexpected way over hula hooping.

05/21/08 at 00:38
If I've grossly misperceived what Hoop Path is and does, my misperceptions have only come from the information you provided, both on your website, on your tribe, in your video presentation, in your blog and in your emails.

And don't be stunned by the amount of time I'd give to responding in a conversation. I didn't want to make uninformed accusations but wanted to give you an in-depth understanding of how someone could see Hoop Path as a cult. After all, if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck... and you have to admit there's some startling similarities.

Just because you don't tell people about the spiritual aspect when you recruit doesn't mean it isn't central to what you do. I don't know what I feel is worse: spouting the spirituality or hiding it.

05/21/08 at 15:09
Now I'm really lost. Before, you had a problem with our alleged "active recruitment." Now you are claiming that I am "hiding" the spiritual (your word, not mine) aspect of HoopPath classes by discussing it in a public forum.

Why don't you write me a personal email at ann@hoopath.com and perhaps together we can figure out what it is that is bothering you.

05/24/08 at 10:13
I decline the offer to write to you personally. I prefer the public forum.

If you don't understand by this point it's because you haven't read what I wrote. I feel I've outlined my points quite clearly and quite openly.

Someone told me recently that you were too close to the problem to accurately see it, and I assume that's true being that you're girlfriend to the Hoop Guru.

So let's just ask this and see if you can answer, because up until now you've not answered very much at all.

1) Do you think you should be allowed to hoop at every WSM event? What is the purpose of you hooping in public? Why do you think your hoopers should be allowed to hoop at every event?

2) Do you really believe The Maidan (feminine wisdom goddesses who descended on a divine wind, right?) are real? Do you believe the new age spirituality you spout is actual or is it just for marketing? Seems weird to have all this feminine wisdom controlled by a man, doesn't it?

3) Do you believe people should compare Jonathan Baxter to Jesus?

4) Do you believe members of HoopPath should ask Jonathan Baxter for permission before bringing a significant other to a dinner/bonfire?

5) Do you believe it's fair to not tell people about The Maidan when you're recruiting for classes? Why don't you tell them about The Maidan at that point?

6) If another group wanted some of the space you currently call your own on WSM lawn, would you give them the space? What if it was a group of Tai Kwon Do guys exercising their way to spirituality? What if it was a group of real estate agents dancing while handing out flyers for their upcoming RE classes? Right now you have a monopoly on the WSM lawn... do you feel you deserve it?

Let's start there, eh? I'm giving you a great change to explain in a public forum why you're not a cult, so let's see what you got...

05/28/08 at 15:01
If your point(s) is/are truly this simple, I can certainly address them. You have narrowed your focus and I appreciate that.

1) Hoopers (not just those who attend HP classes) have been hooping on the WSM lawn for several years. To my knowledge, no one has ever made an official request that this be stopped. In fact, just a few weeks ago in an email exchange with WSM management, they told me that they love having hoopers there and that they hope we will continue to bring hoops to After Hours and Jazz Brunch. Parents love the fact that there is something for their kids to do while they sit and enjoy the music. Some parents hoop. Lots of other people try the hoops too. It's fun. Last Sunday there was some grandparents visiting from England and they tried the hoops.

The purpose of hooping in public is that it's fun for us and it's fun for others as well. I'm assuming you don't like watching hooping, or hooping yourself, but a lot of people love watching it and have fun trying it themselves. I myself was a delighted spectator for quite a while before I got into hooping myself.

Lots of people all over the country (and world) hoop at a lot of public events. If there are regulations against hooping in any forum, I'm sure that is made known to people on a case by case basis.

2) Strangely, I was just discussing this very thing with Baxter last night. The myth or story of the Maidan is, for me, a context through which to tap into the creative force that lives in all of us and is a deep and rich resource for healing and transformation. I will hazard a guess that most people who embrace the sharing of this story in our classes recognize it in much the way that I do---as an access point (which many stories. poems, songs, and dances are) to the profound resource of one's own imagination.

Baxter made up the story of the Maidan over a two-year period of daily hoop practice, creating myths and metaphors that revealed many difficult-to-discover nuances and new techniques of hooping to him. This creative act helped him transform himself from a drifting and depressed waiter into a much stronger and happier person who now teaches his life's passion 4 nights a week, plus 1-2 workshops per month.

He shares his Maidan stories in class in order to a) give new hoopers the technical benefits of the many metaphorical insights he has found over his 7 years of hooping, and b) to inspire students to access their own imaginations when they dance with the hoop--an experience that is singularly rewarding, and which he hopes can offer them some of the physical and mental benefits that he has experienced.

There are many tales of people finding transcendent feelings inside the hoop--it's not at all just limited to the Hoop Path. There are such stories all over tribe.net. If you like I can do some searching and provide you with links. You mentioned Sufi spinning--I believe that the physical act of spinning can bring about a calming effect on the body and can be a physical form of meditation. Personally, I don't believe that meditation in and of itself has to be connected to a particular religious idea or belief. I believe that meditation is good for the body and mind and tends to encourage health and balance.

I don't have a problem with Baxter sharing a story that he himself imagined. I don't see that as controlling. In fact, one of the main things he encourages students to do is write their own Maidan story. If they do, great, if they don't, no big deal. If they want to teach their own hoop class and come up with their own set of images, that's great too. It's just there as the context through which Baxter experienced his own personal inner growth, and he shares it so that others might find resonance with it. He doesn't expect everyone to resonate with it and he doesn't expect anyone to believe anything about the story other than that it inspired him while he was creating it.

3) I don't know what people "should" do as far as comparing anyone to anything. I believe that in your example, the person quoted was using hyperbole to make her point---using an extreme example (Jesus) to show that even his message, which many now would argue is not only not heretical, but is the standard by which heresy is judged, was at one time denounced as heretical. And for me it's pretty easy to see that she used this example because she was being interviewed about the joke "cult" accusations (which at the time, as I told you, we did not know for sure was a joke). I never would have thought of this example myself, but I can see how, through the context of how she was asked, she came up with this hyperbolic example. I do not believe that she was seriously trying to establish a link between Baxter and Jesus. I think she was just responding in the same spirit as the joke accusation.

4) The request for permission to bring a significant other to the dinner was made because this dinner and fire is a part of our retreat weekend, which is a 3-day weekend of events that we are putting on next month for 80 travelers and 20 + locals. Our friend recognized the fact that we are planning a menu for over 100 people and that it's best for us to know ahead of time how many people we will have and she was extremely polite and gracious in recognizing this. Also, she understands that this is a retreat, as opposed to a big party, and that we are doing our best to foster an intimate environment for our guests--i.e., it's not just a random potluck, it's a sharing and bonding experience for all our guests. She came to last year's retreat and, since she understood the spirit of the retreat, she wanted to make sure it was ok to bring her man. She didn't know this at the time when she asked, but other folks are bringing significant others as well and it's totally fine. She was just being very, very considerate.

5) I do not actively recruit, I point people over to our class schedules when they ask for them. I started doing this after being asked many, many times about classes. I do not feel compelled to describe the classes in detail unless someone asks me. If someone doesn't like the vibe of the class, they can choose not to return.

No one has to embrace the story of the Maidan in any particular way in order to attend an HP class. There are plenty of people who are only interested in the technical (as opposed to imaginative) aspects of the class and just tune out anything they aren't interested in.

6) If anyone wants to dance or do anything on the WSM lawn, I have no right and certainly no inclination to stop them. There is woman who expertly does devil sticks (maybe she's a Satanist!!!!!!) out there most Sundays and Thursdays, and there's also a really sweet guy who does frisbee tricks (I don't know whether there's another name for that)--they've both been on the lawn for years.

I wonder who you spoke to about all this, who had bothered to form an opinion about my perspective on THP. I can't think of many people who'd be interested enough to do so.

If you still believe, somehow, that we are actually a cult, I again encourage you to meet/talk with me/anyone who actually attends HP classes and events.

05/31/08 at 00:57
None of what you say rings true when you stack it up next to the statements on your website and on your tribe. You didn't answer the questions I asked and you've even contradicted yourself a few times from what you've posted earlier here...

An earlier article on the N&O says Baxter didn't start hooping until after 2002 when he went to see hooping for the girls. That's hardly 7 years...

So, if I understand correctly, you think you should be allowed at every event because everyone likes you (except me, of course), the Maidan is a made up tale of new-age spirituality that helps sell classes, it's okay to compare Baxter to Jesus as long as it's done with hyperbole (even though that's not how it was used on the tribe site - and I'm an atheist, so I just thought it was a really pompous comparison), people should ask sheepishly for Baxter's permission to date (because, again, the way you present it wasn't the way it happened on your tribe), and it's alright to proselytize as long as you give people the option to "tune it out"...

I didn't talk to anyone about all this to form my opinions, Ann. These were my own ideas (a novel concept, eh)...

And I never claimed you were a cult... I just said that a case could be made for you being a cult based on characteristics and behavior... take that as you will...

06/29/08 at 10:18
Ann, after reading this debate I'm reminded of an old saying: Don't wrestle with a pig. First of all, you'll get all covered with mud. Secondly, the pig enjoys it. I don't want to get down in the mud, but in Ann's and Baxter's defense, I'll say this: I've taken one class with Baxter and he's no cult leader. He's an athlete and a dancer. He's not grandiose. In fact, he's very self-effacing. He's a good teacher. And the class was fun! Moreover, he didn't try to sell us anything, and the class itself was inexpensive. If giving workshops on arty or wacky or esoteric things were a crime, half of Chapel Hill and Carrboro would be in jail. As for making money from teaching--so what? You want him to teach dance for free because he tells people to love themselves? He's a dance instructor. I'm sure you could hear "spiritual" sounding comments in almost any dance class. The fact that art can have a spiritual component doesn't make it a cult activity. If this guy doesn't want to watch the dancing, perhaps he should go somewhere else to hang out. Or turn his chair the other way. I've seen them out at Weaver Street, and they were fun to watch. And that's all the time I want to give to this curmudgeon. Good luck Hoopers! Keep on dancing!

06/29/08 at 13:46
Nice... now I'm a pig and a curmudgeon? Personal insults are always an effective conversational style for the spiritually centered, it seems...

You miss the point too, Elizabeth A... no one cares whether workshops are given or teaching happens or dancing takes place. The problem is more the constant public displays and I think that's been stated from the very start, hasn't it? The problem is the blocking of the sidewalk and the perceived privilege that the sidewalk blockage (and the constant public displays) are a right for the hoopers (and if I don't like it I can leave - again, nice reasoning... I'd love to hear your conservative views on immigration too - I suppose if I don't like the war I can move out of the country too? Or if I don't like the health care situation I can move to Canada? Who else would you consider expelling from the town/county/state/country, Elizabeth?)...

All in all, I'm reminded of an old parable of my own... when asked to compile all the information in the world in the smallest amount of words, a team of the most intelligent people in the land returned with a single sentence that read, "This too shall pass." Every fad fades...